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Jonathan Davies: Wales 'on the way up', 'Borthwick likes control'

Ahead of Wales's final July Nations Championship match against South Africa in Durban, former Wales centre Jonathan 'The Fox' Davies spoke to Betpack to review the campaign so far.

Davies spoke about how Wales have recovered from 'rock-bottom' when they last faced the Springboks in November. He also gave his view on England's centre midfield selection puzzle and questioned whether Steve Borthwick would give Shaun Edwards the control he'd want.

Editor's note: This interview was conducted in July 2026, before Wales played South Africa in Durban. Jonathan Davies's answers appear as given at the time.
Jonathan Davies
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Jonathan Davies
Mert
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Mert https://www.linkedin.com/in/mert-feyzio%C4%9Flu/
Interview Questions
    Created 2026-10-01
    Read Time 15 Minutes

    Assess Wales's two performances in the Nations Championship. A decent win over Fiji, but the Argentina game felt like a step backwards, didn't it?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    There have definitely been improvements and signs of Steve Tandy's blueprint for the team and how he wants them to play. The Barbarians game was very valuable in preparation for a team like Fiji.


    During the first half against Fiji, you were probably sitting there at half-time thinking, 'Christ, we're lucky to be 10-all and not 20 points down.' But credit to Wales, they showed real maturity in their performance in the second half to find a way to get the result. That was a positive sign, because in previous Six Nations games where it was close, they've just faded away.


    But I was always aware that Argentina was a different class to Fiji. Lots has been made about the travelling, but at the end of the day, Argentina was a reality check in terms of the gap between the top Tier 1 teams and the teams chasing that level.


    I was disappointed with the result, but I kind of expected it. The physicality and speed of ball—it's a tough task for the Welsh boys when Argentina are constantly gaining ground at will, making metres, dominating the collisions in attack and defence, and sapping the energy out of Wales. I just wish they'd managed to secure a bonus point or two.

    One of the positives is that more players are being exposed to the reality of life at Test level, isn't it?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    It's about learning the standards that are expected of you as a professional rugby player. I remember my first international game in Cardiff, and I was like a rabbit in the headlights. But over time, being exposed to that environment, you get used to it and become comfortable with feeling uncomfortable.


    These players have had some harsh lessons and experiences, like South Africa in November, and against France and England at the start of the Six Nations. But they've shown improvement as they've gone on. When you play against these teams, you firstly go back and look at your own performance, understand and compare where the opposition got the better of you, and then think about how you get to that level.

    When was rock bottom, do you think, for Wales?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    Rock bottom was the South Africa game last November. Finding any positives for that was tough. But it showed what was needed to reach South Africa's gold standard. We're definitely on the way up from that.


    The thing for me is that the key factors of international rugby were not quite there in terms of physicality, collision dominance, and speed of the ball. We were able to get momentum through maybe two or three phases of attack, but after that, we struggled to regain it. We're definitely on the way up, slowly but surely.

    Which leads us neatly on to this Saturday and South Africa in Durban. Erasmus has made 10 changes with four new caps and looks as strong as ever, and punters placing wagers at bookmakers are likely to have Springboks as favourites. It's a daunting proposition for Wales, isn't it?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    You have to credit Rassie for the stable of players he has developed. It's almost like Paul Nicholls back in the day when he dominated Cheltenham, or Willie Mullins today with his stable full of stars for almost every race.


    It's impressive to be able to make 10 changes two weeks on the bounce and still look like you have a world-class team. What they have is incredible competition. The gap between them and the rest of the world isn't massive, but it is enough that the group is able to generate its own standards. They all hold themselves accountable.


    You don't see them dropping off at any level. You don't know when your last opportunity might be, and when you get one, you have to really go for it. They are so ruthless.

    Were they the hardest team you ever faced physically?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    Yes. But at the time, New Zealand set the benchmark. It was the speed they played at; they were ahead of the curve in terms of how they upskilled their pack with ball-players, which made it so much more difficult to contend with.


    And they had a physicality, whereas South Africa was just exceptionally big men who came at you relentlessly. We were able to withstand that pressure back then, but I don't think the current Welsh pack is quite there physically to go toe-to-toe with them. You don't want to play South Africa's style against them because they are the world's best at it. You've got to find a different way to try to exploit them.

    Where do you think that might be? Is it about attacking direct and at speed to spread them, like Scotland did?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    The hardest thing to get in Test rugby is momentum. And when you've got it, you have to keep it. It's a chain reaction. The carry has to be good, the body height has to be good, and then the speed of your support players to clean that ball out is crucial.


    You've got to keep the ball. We've got a world-class asset in Tomos Williams, but I feel we're not giving him the opportunity to showcase his skills because the ball isn't quick enough for him to attack a retreating defence. Constantly, Wales go up against a brick wall because they lack momentum.


    You have to give Tomos a licence to go out and play because he loves it when the shackles are off. But if you play a high-tempo, loose game, you can't turn the ball over. You've got to secure it. The newer boys have to understand that every action has a consequence. If you force an offload and South Africa pick it up, you might end up underneath your own sticks.


    You defensively cannot try to wrestle big men. When Marcos Kremer is running at you, you can't go chest-to-chest. You're not going to win that battle. You have to go low, get a chop tackle, put the ball carrier straight to the ground, and give guys like Jac Morgan, Dewi Lake, Dillon Lewis, or James Botham a chance to get over the ball.


    Do I think this Welsh team can out-muscle the top five teams? No. But we can focus on tackling low, killing momentum, and getting our jackals over the ball.

    Is the chop-tackle the answer defensively? Dan Lydiate made it his specialty, and he's part of the coaching team now, isn't he?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    He is in charge of the contact area and skill development. I would have that guy taking everyone for one-on-one tackling! In the first two games, we were trying to hold up these big men and we ended up missing 59 tackles. That cedes a lot of momentum to the opposition. We need to shift our tactics in terms of our tackle height. I think we'd get a good gain from that.

    Can you offer a prediction for Durban for fans following the rugby betting markets?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    I see South Africa having a lot of confidence and swagger. I don't see them taking any pity on us. It could be an extremely tough day for our boys. I just want Wales to focus on becoming a tough team to beat. Test match rugby is all about winning in my mind. I'd much rather score 9 points and win than score 30 points and lose. But if Wales can keep it to within 25 points, I'll take that and they'll have done well.

    Looking at England now: one of the areas they haven't cracked is an effective centre pairing. Borthwick has made endless changes. You had one of the great partnerships with Jamie Roberts—what is the secret to it?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    You have to have time to gel, and you need two players willing to find solutions together. In the early games, we certainly weren't the finished article. We grew to understand the strengths and weaknesses of our partnership. Jamie was good at getting us over the gain line and on the front foot with such a physical presence. I backed myself defensively to read the game well and understand where a team was looking to attack.


    It's about not exposing yourselves defensively while understanding each other's strengths. I remember playing alongside Hadleigh Parkes—the Welsh Kiwi. He was as direct as anything, highly effective, and had great hands for a big man. If there were concerns, we found a solution together in the centre pairing. It's like a problem shared is a problem halved.

    If you were England's coach, who would you pick?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    I really do like Ollie Lawrence as a 12. He goes at the line really square, and he is able to play and keep his momentum going forward. When he runs with the ball in his hand, he is leaning forward so you don't know whether he is going to carry or pass.


    I'd probably then opt for Henry Slade, who's enjoyed a resurgence in his rugby. He seems to be playing with freedom and confidence. Plus, his kicking game is so important at the international level.

    What do you make of Steve Borthwick? He keeps talking about resets. Is he on borrowed time?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    I worked with Lee Blackett, and he was one of the best coaches I've ever had. He came to the Scarlets for six months towards the end of my time after Wasps folded. I loved his coaching style. I thought he was exceptional. He was able to prepare us every week, and everything was measurable. I was trying to get Wales to sign Lee Blackett as our attack coach for a long time.


    When England signed him, I thought that with the talent they have, England would really go to the next level. Before the Six Nations, I thought England would be favourites to win and be strong contenders for the World Cup next year. But I just haven't seen an evolution in their attack. I wonder if there is a leash being put on Lee.


    I hear that Steve is very controlling and risk-averse. Sometimes giving coaches more autonomy gets more out of them. I am wondering if Steve is trying to control too much. That's what it seems to me, and because he is feeling the pressure, he brings everything in closer and he's not trusting his coaching staff. Former players say the same. And when so many people say the same thing, there's usually some truth to it.

    Marcus Smith seems to be suffering most, being shunted around from fly-half to fullback and even scrum-half. What should England do with him?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    I was lucky I could only play in one position so I couldn't be shunted around. We had James Hook in my day, who could play anywhere. Would he have had more caps if he played just one position? We don't know, but possibly.


    As a coach, you have to understand the strengths of every player and know how to get the very best out of that individual. The best coaches absorb the pressure and don't push it down onto the players. But at the moment, England's players are probably feeling the pressure. For me though, they have time to get it right ahead of the World Cup.

    Do you think Borthwick lacks the charisma of a Warren Gatland or a Rassie Erasmus?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    Steve doesn't seem to want to do that side of it. But being an international coach is about a lot more than just coaching the drills. You live and breathe it. The hours these coaches put in are ungodly, but you have to manage the people as well.

    If you were at the RFU, would you move heaven and earth to sign Shaun Edwards?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    It would be a dream if Wales could get him back! He is a world-class coach. Look at what he has done in his career. It is amazing.


    But the question is, would Steve be comfortable giving Shaun control over that side of the game? I know Shaun would want full autonomy, and Borthwick likes control. But Shaun makes every rugby environment in which he works much, much better.


    I remember in 2019 when Wayne Pivac was just about to take over with Wales. He called me into his office just at the time Shaun had signed to coach Wigan. Wayne said there was an opportunity to buy out his contract with Wigan and keep him in Wales. I said to Wayne, 'If the union won't pay out, if I were you, I'd pay it myself because he would repay you and then some.' I rate him so highly. I loved playing for him because he cared so much about his players.

    Henry Pollock—where do you stand? Can the clarion call for him to start be ignored any longer?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    Look at his performances leading up to the Prem final and the final itself. Strong performances for 80 minutes. We know he can perform for 80 minutes. Now is the time. You just have to give him a start. It's just silly to roll this on. He can handle it, both physically and in the pressure cooker environment. England is almost making it bigger than it needs to be by not starting him. He's smashing it, he's backing up his talk. If you're doing that, then credit to you.

    A word on Ireland. Andy Farrell has signed until 2031, but where are they as a side?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    They always seem to have these big cycles, and the timing is often wrong. The team we played in the 2011 quarter-finals was an ageing team.


    That is the big challenge for the coaching setup: how they handle that transition. They have a hugely experienced coaching setup and the standards they set will be exceptional. You have got to create opportunities. The big area is the pack and the front five. Tadhg Beirne and Tadhg Furlong are in their mid-30s. James Ryan has been around a long time; Josh van der Flier has played a huge amount of rugby. That will take its toll. The amount of collisions these players have had, the level of attrition—it takes its toll.


    Will Andy manage these players to get them to and through the World Cup, or give opportunities to younger players? It's going to be an interesting balancing act to replace guys with that much experience and knowledge. With their pathways, you're always going to have new players who understand the system and are ready to go, but will they have enough experience going into a World Cup? He has to give players opportunities.


    Look at Warren Gatland in 2018 when Wales played South Africa in Washington and two Tests in Argentina. He did not take one of his Lions from the previous year. He capped at least ten players, and that was certainly the springboard to our Grand Slam success in 2019 and getting to the World Cup semi-finals. We won all three, which gave the new boys confidence and created an environment where those of us who were rested knew there was quality coming through.


    Sometimes you have to be really brave and make some big calls to find out if the next generation is ready. At some stage, you have to find out. There is no point guessing.

    The Leinster job is coming up next summer. Ronan O'Gara's name has been mentioned. But do you think Warren Gatland might be tempted?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    He is enjoying being at home and with a couple of grandchildren. So, if I were him, I wouldn't. It's that competitive nature. It's interesting that they have given themselves due time to find the right person. It is a very attractive job but one with huge pressure. They are expected to win every week. Never say never, but I would be surprised.

    How do you rate Ronan O'Gara?

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    Look at the job he has done at La Rochelle. He's taken a mid-table team and won the Champions Cup twice. That is outstanding. To be able to get a French club to buy into a foreign ideology is a huge achievement. He's extremely knowledgeable and you know where you stand with him.

    Do you want England to win against Argentina? It's a big week for sports betting, with England facing Argentina in both football and rugby.

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    Jonathan Davies
    Jonathan Davies

    I think England has been brilliant. I am one of the Welsh people who supports England. We don't have a stake in the game, so why wouldn't you?


    Hopefully, on Wednesday, England can do it. I can't believe they've never faced Messi! England haven't performed that well, so you'd hope they'll time their best performances for now! I would love an England win. But the way the cards are falling for Messi, it's almost like it is written in the stars for him. But I hope England wins. I go 3-2.


    England is also playing Argentina on Saturday. I am sure the rugby boys are hoping the footballers don't win, because you don't want to be going to Argentina just after England has knocked the football team out of the World Cup! In terms of the rugby Test, I can't see past England with all the talent they have.


    It's like it's written in the stars! I think with Thomas Tuchel in charge and the talent England has, I can't see past a 2-1 win for England.

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